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Re: [VWoT] OT: Lest We Forget
Excellent Drew. It's the most concise and even-handed explanation I've ever
read. Now do you care to explain the Northern Ireland situation? ;)
Griff
From: "Drew" <drew@scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca>
> On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 11:40, Todd Snyder wrote:
> > Ok Drew, you seem pretty knowledgable about .. Well .. Everything.
>
> Yeah, right. That's why I'm stuck in this dead-end job working for
> peanuts, breaking my back night and day for the man.
>
> > I need someone to explain to me the Israel/Palestine thing .. I don't
> > understand it. Whos right/whos wrong? Why are they so angry? Why is
> > whats his face dying so important?
>
> Oh my stars. What in the name of all that is good did you have to open
> THAT can of worms for?
>
> Basically we can sum this up in two words:
>
> "religious conflict"
>
> Arabs and Jews have been fighting over real estate in the middle east
> since the days of golden calves. It stands to reason that in the cradle
> of civilization, people are going to find an excuse to fight, no matter
> what.
>
> The Jewish state had been subjugated since Roman times (or earlier -
> Alexander the Great conquered them around 330 BC) Emperor Hadrian
> destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jewish people, banishing them or
> selling them into slavery, sometime around 130 AD I think. Sounds like
> a replay of the Babylonian invasion (remember Sunday School?) only this
> one lasted a lot longer.
>
> Arab Muslims conquered a goodly percentage of the Byzantine Empire (what
> remained of the Eastern Roman Empire, including Palestine and
> Jerusalem. The area was under Arab rule through the end of the first
> world war, with the collapse of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire. Note that
> on several occasions western Christians fought to reclaim Jerusalem
> throughout the Middle Ages.
>
> At the end of WWI Britain ruled in Palestine, and publicly committed to
> establishing a national home for the Jewish people. Throughout the 20s
> and 30s Jews emigrated to Palestine, much to the alarm of the Arab
> population who lived there. Can you blame them? Imagine after 2000
> years you get people moving into your neighbourhood and laying claim to
> it again.
>
> The conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestine continued to fester
> through the end of the war. In 1947 Britain tried to pass the mess off
> to the newly-formed United Nations. A resolution to split Palestine
> into two separate states passed, but was not implemented.
>
> In 1948 Britain withdrew from the area, and the state of Israel was
> declared by Jews in Palestine. Jewish forces repulsed armies from
> neighbouring Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. At the end of the
> conflict, the state of Israel occupied most of the previous Palestine.
> Egypt maintained the Gaza strip, and Jordan ended up with the West Bank.
>
> During the 6 days war in 1967 Israel captured the Gaza from Egypt and
> expelled Jordan from the West Bank, and captured Syrian territory on its
> northern border.
>
> In 1973, Egypt and Syria attempted to reclaim lost territory in the "Yom
> Kippur" war. The most direct offshoot of this war was the Saudi-led oil
> embargo against western nations supporting Israel.
>
> Since the '60s the Arab world has been fighting to restore the
> Palestinian state through peaceful and non peaceful means within
> Israel. The PLO (or Palestinian Liberation Organization) was formed by
> Arab nations in the Middle East. Yasser Arafat, who had been
> successfully leading terrorist attacks against Israel for a number of
> years, became the chairman of the PLO in 1969.
>
> Since then it's been a battle of give and take - peace and war as the
> Arabs struggle with the bulk of the western world.
>
> What are the issues? Oil supply obviously is one - western nations
> strive for stability in the middle-east to secure a vast supply of cheap
> oil.
>
> Guilt no doubt plays a large role in the creation and support of the
> Jewish or Zionist state. Although the Holocaust of WWII is the largest
> single example, Jews have been victim of persecution throughout the
> world since their expulsion from Judea 2 thousand years ago. Zionists
> in positions of power in western nations (either financial or political)
> no pushed for support of Israel in the years following WWII.
>
> Since the 70's western governments have been pushing for co-existence of
> Israel and Palestine. In 78 Jimmy Carter hosted Egyptian President
> Anwar Sadat and Israeli PM Menachem Begin - the Camp David Peace accord
> being the result. Egypt recognized the existence of Israel, and the two
> nations signed a bilateral peace agreement. However, this incurred the
> wrath of the other Arab nations in the middle-east, and Sadat was
> assassinated in '81 by Islamic extremists.
>
> > I'm getting tired of not understanding and not knowing whos side I'm on.
>
> In a conflict as old as this, it is not easy to choose sides - both
> sides are right, and both sides are wrong. Israel and Palestine both
> claim Jerusalem is a Holy City - both are right.
>
> > For instance, why was Iraq lobbing missles at them during the gulf war?
>
> In the first Gulf War, Yaser Arafat made the unfortunate decision to
> support Sadam and Iraq - depriving him of financial support from other
> Arab nations in the region who did not share this viewpoint. In
> general, however, an enemy of Islam is an enemy of Islam, and Israel is
> a prime target. They couldn't lob missiles at Washington, so Tel Aviv
> was a close second.
>
> > Why does the US care who wins?
>
> See comments above. Note that in general the United Nations and the
> West are in support of the co-existence of an Arab Palestinian state and
> a Zionist Israeli state. Most Arab nations are against the idea, and
> many Zionists and Palestinians are as well, for obvious reasons.
>
> Drew (and a dusty old world history textbook for names and dates!)
> --
>
> 84 Wolfsburg Ed. Scirocco GTD http://scirocco.cs.uoguelph.ca/gtd
> 77 Scirocco project car
> 94 A3 Golf GL TurboDiesel, 99 A3 Jetta GL TDI
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